tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4408995960088977639.post1952521018140806777..comments2023-09-03T06:27:31.792-04:00Comments on THE SOMETIMES PREACHER: Taxing Churchesandyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13417720112665220722noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4408995960088977639.post-9878227876981067202011-03-31T10:30:25.719-04:002011-03-31T10:30:25.719-04:00Chris,
I see your point, but I just believe that ...Chris,<br /><br />I see your point, but I just believe that the government should be limited in its taxation to only commercial enterprises.andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13417720112665220722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4408995960088977639.post-25866428005196920532011-03-30T23:18:20.666-04:002011-03-30T23:18:20.666-04:00ELF,
I still don't see how having a church pay...ELF,<br />I still don't see how having a church pay property taxes infringes on religious freedom. I pay property taxes and so far as I can tell, this doesn't infringe on my freedom. Clearly, having to pay taxes would affect how a church budgets and the like, but would it really affect which bible it uses, sermons it preaches, etc? I'm inclined to think not.<br /><br />I also really don't see why we would have to tax all NPs the same. We tax individuals differently, we tax corporations differently, surely we could come up with an overcomplicated tax code that taxed NPs according to their financial standing.<br /><br />Finally, I don't mean to suggest that that the tiny NP soup kitchen should be lumped together with Ohio State...but that's exactly what our current tax code does. I was actually trying to make the opposite point that, as you say, taxing many small NPs would likely cause them to cease to exist, where as taxing large NP's (like Ohio State) might make fiscal sense for a community.<br /><br />I honestly don't consider myself pro-tax, just think that the idea is worth considering. I completely agree that churches, hospitals, etc., add value to a community. However, especially in the case of the largest NPs like universities, they also represent a burden on the local infrastructure. An infrastructure they do not contribute to as an organization. Maybe the trade off in services is worth it, I can't say for sure, just think it's an idea worth considering.Chris Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14348403873552256194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4408995960088977639.post-27039452723855699042011-03-30T17:31:27.649-04:002011-03-30T17:31:27.649-04:00Chris,
Taxing Churches does infringe on religious ...Chris,<br />Taxing Churches does infringe on religious freedom (directly and indirectly) it would affect every aspect of how the church runs/plans. Including the people it helps via donation and missions. Andy is right by the way; if you tax one you have to tax them all. I believe it would cause a lot of churches to close their doors if they were subject to taxation. Say they do start closing; would the government find a way to "bail them out"? Leading to more government involvement via "bail out funds" and inevitably tax credits and/or deductions. More importantly would our government care if churches closed?<br />It's a great picture you paint lumping OSU in with the 3 person soup kitchen (probably being run out of a “Mega Church”). Except for the fact that they both have their place in our society, and they are both needed. While OSU probably wouldn't claim feeding the homeless as their main contribution to society, they sure do a lot of work to cure illness, disease, and conditions. Keep in mind that the hundreds of workers at the Hospitals you mentioned do generate the taxes you propose. Income Tax, property tax, school tax, municipal tax… the list goes on. I'd also like to point out that you probably benefited personally or know someone who benefited by the research done at either OSU or Cleveland Clinic. <br />There is no Band-Aid for our country's deficit. I don't want to get off topic so I'll stop here as I don’t want to get further into the mismanagement of our tax dollars we currently pay.ELFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4408995960088977639.post-17556786673106782212011-03-30T16:10:52.036-04:002011-03-30T16:10:52.036-04:00Andy,
I can certainly understand some reluctance t...Andy,<br />I can certainly understand some reluctance to place what might be an undue burden and your point that NPs often (hopefully always) benefit the community is a good one. However, I don't think it's a matter of government entitlement as it is a matter of pragmatism. Take the cleveland clinic again. You have a multi-million dollar entity that, while certainly contributing to the community, draws on it too. It receives, electric, water, fire, police coverage, all those things residents pay municipal taxes for, for free. Moreover, in not paying property taxes a significant contribution to the local schools is withheld. My point is that NPs of this sort, which in my estimation would include some churches, universities, schools, etc. can and should contribute in the form of taxes. I don't want to tax the tiny church of the brethren, or start up NP out of existence. But one could easily imagine a case where a NP that does more than, say half a million in revenue pays some of the taxes they are currently exempt from. As things stand now, we have large NPs operating essentially as for-profits (think of Ohio State U) but getting an enormous tax break b/c they get lumped together with the 3 person start-up soup kitchen. That seems silly to me.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08260911522850687854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4408995960088977639.post-30938734503436266812011-03-30T16:00:56.855-04:002011-03-30T16:00:56.855-04:00Chris,
I think levying taxes on nonprofits (inclu...Chris,<br /><br />I think levying taxes on nonprofits (including churches) is ultimately a cynical move that overlooks the enrichment these entities bring to the community. And if we're going to tax one nonprofit, we have to tax them all, sliding scale or not. This means taxing schools, libraries, clinics, all government departments, and museums. I believe this creates an undo burden on entities whose primary contribution to the community is in areas other than commerce. Furthermore, I struggle with the idea that the government is entitled to collect monies from every entity that exists within its boundaries.andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13417720112665220722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4408995960088977639.post-58495830777699983332011-03-30T15:47:17.277-04:002011-03-30T15:47:17.277-04:00I don't really see how taxing a church infring...I don't really see how taxing a church infringes on religious freedom. And plenty of mega-churches generate revenue in many more commercial ways than tithes. Obviously there is a meaningful distinction between NPs who are essentially small corporations and NPs that would cease to exist if their tax-exempt status were stripped.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08260911522850687854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4408995960088977639.post-11403918065304100292011-03-30T14:23:45.949-04:002011-03-30T14:23:45.949-04:00Taxing churches and other NP's (who survive fr...Taxing churches and other NP's (who survive from donations from the private citizens) sounds like double taxation if you ask me... We already pay: Income Taxes, Property Taxes, Sales Taxes, Fuel Tax… etc, and there are so many other "fee's" associated with our everyday life: Phone, Internet, Utilities, auto/license... I digress. I don't want to donate to my church for them to have to turn around and give more of my (God's) money to the government. This notion is completely insane if you ask me. American Government sometimes forgets what they were founded on "Religious Freedom" - Ring a bell??ELFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4408995960088977639.post-32259963058285098782011-03-30T11:22:52.357-04:002011-03-30T11:22:52.357-04:00Interesting topic Andy. Last fall I was at a confe...Interesting topic Andy. Last fall I was at a conference for Ohio Non-profits where a speaker argued that many non-profits ought to be taxed. For instance, the Cleveland Clinic is a non-profit, despite the dollars it extracts from the local community (I don't intend that to sound harsh, just to indicate that money flows from people to the hospital). The CEO of the clinic is paid in the 7 figure range. While, as you point out, non-profits do pay employment taxes, they don't pay sales tax or property taxes. So the Cleveclinic's multi acre campus does not generate any tax revenue for local schools. The same can be said for the sprawling mega-church campuses. <br /><br />There's no reason we could not pass a tiered tax system on non-profits, including churches so that we did not expose smaller, more vulnerable NPs to the same tax burden that larger, and essentially more profitable NPs are liable. Arguably, there is a threshold at which an organization no longer resembles the kind of organization the NP tax exemption was intended to benefit. In my opinion many churches and NPs fall into that category.Chris Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14348403873552256194noreply@blogger.com